Thursday, September 07, 2006

REMOVED

The End

80 Comments:

Blogger Elikapeka Tiramisu said...

This is why I'm so blah about SL. Truly. Thanks for posting this up.

6:03 AM  
Blogger Isabella Lazarno said...

If either of you are intested in giving an interview regarding this please IM me in game, I've covered it in a blog regarding information on SL. http://slexplorersnews.blogspot.com/
Thanks =)

6:39 AM  
Anonymous Ambyance said...

For some reason Mistress has decided not to post my comments to her blog.
This was the last comment I made,so if your following her blog this should have been added.

If doing this is no big deal Mis,why did you lie about it to me and to Starley when confronted? You also know how lost felt about this prior to you using his hair base because you inserted yourself into the situation between Lost and Torrid when Tor used his textures 2 months ago .

[6:25] Mistress Midnight: and if she and lost are cool with eachother, just let it REST. I'm not condoing any behaviour on any part, but i hardly think you'd preffer tor speak out FOR texture theft. Just please, let her heal. she doesnt need the stress nor grief.

Please correct me if im wrong , but sure looks like your condoning it in this blog.Why is that Mis? Could it be because you were caught in your lie ?

7:13 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hit enter TWICE at the end of paragraphs and we get purdy whitespace between paragraphs that helps old men like me be able to read more easily.

7:15 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Beware. A close friend of mine was told to leave Amby and Lost's store the other day because he knows Torrid, he does not hang out with her, he does not talk to her, he knows her, knows who she is, has had maybe a couple conversations with her. I think yes, Torrid made a mistake, she said she was sorry, now we should either let it go, or just move on. The real bad guys are Amby and Lost. If you're not going to let people shop just because they know somone, then you need to get a life. A real one.

Also, I would like to say, ALL of the items sold in your shops are PHOTOSOURCED, you see a picture, you cut it out, you paste it onto a template and you upload it! This does not make you some high and fashion designer, other people know how to cut and paste an item they like onto a template as well.

All you do is accuse accuse accuse! You do not OWN these styles, so unless another situation comes up where somone admits to using your texture, please stop with the high and mighty crap! Because you're not.

Here's an idea why not try being origional and creating somthing on your own for once, somthing you didn't find online, then IF and when somone steals it, you can cry about it. Untill then, shut the F**k up :)

7:58 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I do believe Anon above me that Lost and Amby can tell whomever they want to leave their store.

Not saying that it's right to do so, but it is their right.

Also it's shocking all of it very much so.

8:04 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What an idiot the above poster is. You are entitled to be compensated for your work. If it is so easy to copy and paste that skin onto a template and upload it into second Life, why didn't they just do that instead of stealing the textures you prepared? Did they even pay for them?

That's the most disgusting thing about this. Like they think they somehow have the right to just use whatever they want regardless of who made or owns it because what? They're special? Puhleease...

Thanks for posting this, I know where I WON'T be shopping in the future.

8:07 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Amazing. If one can be banned for just talking to Torrid, I imagine half of SL would be banned from Naughty Island.

8:08 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I was not saying the skin stealing was okay, I was referring to the clothing they sell. I in no way shape or form said it was okay to steal skin textures.

My point was, that just because she made a pair of jeans, and other people saw them online and made them too, does not mean she was the first person to make them and even if she was that doesn't mean she can go around accusing people for making the same thing.

Also yes, it is their right to kick anyone out of their store, but for knowing somone, for BAIRLY knowing somone, that's not right, it's legal but not right.

8:17 AM  
Anonymous amby said...

Who was banned for talking to Torrid, anom?Please review our ban list before you make such a statement.If you are refering to garbage,he was never banned ..Infact I have complete respect and admiration for him .

If you are refering to Neph.Thats a whole different situation that has not been brought to this blog for a reason .

Lost and I have never hidden the fact that we photosource.If you dont respect what we do then you can shop at stores in wich you do respect .That is your choice.For the record we create what the majority likes to wear.IMO that happens to be photosourced clothing,skins,etc. Lost and I are definatley capable of creating hand made, hand drawn clothing and skins.Sorry thats not where our market happens to be .

8:19 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

to the anonymous poster who thinks this is about a pair of jeans....

It's not...it's about skins. Both Mistress and Torrid have ripped Lost's skins without his permission. If you don't think that's justification for being upset...well then perhaps you're not a skinner and don't understand. Especially having it ripped from someone you thought was a friend. Regardless if it was for personal use or resale, it's still ripping. Ripping = stealing. Period.

In any case, I think amby only mentioned the Torrid story to give background and probably as a response to the blogs from both Torrid and Mistress. Seems like they posted on their blogs to cover their butts. And Amby and this other designer posted on their own blogs to give their sides of the story, since someone decided to twist things up a little.

8:31 AM  
Blogger Kimberly Casanova said...

I'd liked to throw out there that Amby has apologized to me, we had a nice little chat. I appreciate her doing that, it sure did make me feel alot better.

It's depressing how bad texture stealing has gotten lately, I can't imagine how a clothing designer is feeling, I'd probably be paranoid to no end. Not only does it stir up a nice big pot of drama, it's causing alot of designers to break down, it's upsetting to see.

Many of my friends design their own clothing, and it's just heartbreaking to see people come and steal their honest work in just a matter of seconds, when it takes the designer hours at a time to create it and get it exactly how they wanted.

I'm in no way accusing anyone of doing anything, it's just my thoughts on the whole texture stealing situation lately. I haven't, nor will I ever have any interest in stealing anybodys work. I've done some things in my nooby days that I am in no way proud of, but I have apologized and have grown from it, I hope you all can do the same here.

8:48 AM  
Blogger Tuli Asturias said...

If a texture is MOD it means you may modify it WITHIN the limits of the SL world, not use a program to rip it to your computer and modify it. This, imho, was most definately stealing. And I am shocked that a "famous" designer thinks so lightly of it.

About the anonymous (of course) person who was dissing Lost and Amby about photosourcing, try and do it yourself. If it was that easy, why wouldn't the majority of designers do it. It is definately not easy to conform to the SL template proportions, avoiding the weird stretching SL does, making seams match up, keeping the texture sharp in the process, to get a quality SL version.

Much respect to Lost and Amby.

8:55 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous #500 said...

I would like to hear an answer to what one of my fellow anonymousies asked above. Did they pay for the skins they ripped? Judging by Mistresses response that she helped Lost as a newbie or whatever, I'm guessing the answer is no?

If they ripped it without paying, that's dirt on the grave as far as I'm concerned. If they paid for it, it's still a pretty shady thing to do, but if not, it's just (dis)honest to goodness stealing and they should be banned like all the other thieves.

9:05 AM  
Anonymous amby said...

That is exactly why I posted the issue I had with torrid years earlier. Only to give a background on these latest events.

Contrary to what alot believe, Lost nor I never wanted to destroy anyone or make anyone look bad.We never had intentions to go public with any of these things until Mis decided to do so .

I cannot say enough how sorry I am if some of the things I have said or done negativley effected people that did not deserve to be involved.kim for one was innocent in all of this,I let my emotions over run logical thinking.I should have asked her directly.

If I come off high and mighty to some Id like those people to know I do not feel im better than any other designer here.I do what I enjoy,Ive made it my career,I try the best I can to protect myself and those closest to me.

If I suspect that somone is doing somthing that can hurt our buisness I try to handle it the best way I know how.Yes,often times im quite emotional in these situations.Its very hard to remain calm when you deal with theft on a daily basis the way we do.Its even harder when you have to deal with it from people you thought you could trust.

9:06 AM  
Anonymous Amby said...

Yes, I believe Mis did purchase the lost skin she used for the hair base.Im not positive though. Lost should be on later this afternoon. He would be better at answering that question.

9:12 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You told Garbage to leave your store, and not to come back because he was accoiated with Torrid. You told him since he made his own clothing and his own skins that he had no need to buy yours. That's bull. I am guessing you don't ever buy anyone elses skins or clothes just cause you make your own?

Quoted
"to the anonymous poster who thinks this is about a pair of jeans....

It's not...it's about skins. Both Mistress and Torrid have ripped Lost's skins without his permission. If you don't think that's justification for being upset...well then perhaps you're not a skinner and don't understand. Especially having it ripped from someone you thought was a friend. Regardless if it was for personal use or resale, it's still ripping. Ripping = stealing. Period."

End of quote

Again I am not saying that stealing the skins was right, I think that was wrong, and I do not think it is okay weather it was payed for or not. I am sorry that happned. But I have been around a while, and I can't tell you how many times I have heard Amby accuse people of stealing from her, when all that really happned was they photosourced from the same site.

I am posting anonymous because I am torn. I feel for Lost as well as the third party, their skins are both amazing. I would be upset byond words if that happned to me, but then I get to thinking, about past accusations that they have made, and it's getting old. The boy only cried wolf for so long.

10:42 AM  
Blogger Torrid said...

I posted before when the blog entry was up the first time, I debated posting again but I feel the need.

It appears as though I've been labeled as not being remorseful or that I think what I did was right. I am not here to defend myself, I clearly had a lapse in judgement and it was a mistake. I went to Lost, we talked things through, I apologized and basically handed him my heart on a platter back a few months ago when this happened.

He accepted my apology, he respected me for taking responsibility and we worked things out. I think we both felt better in the end and we were fine. He knows that I would never, ever do that again and that I would always come to him and ask now. What I did then was just plain stupid, especially being a desinger myself. I took liberties because I considered Lost a friend, and that's not what being a friend means.

I really can't say or do anything else than what I've done. I thought we worked things out and it was resolved. I can only hope that people will forgive and remember that I'm a human and I make mistakes. I do hope Amby, that one day you forgive me as Lost did and that maybe you'll choose to talk with me.

I wish you both well.

10:43 AM  
Blogger the truth re: fic said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

10:45 AM  
Anonymous Amby said...

anon,
Ive spoken to garbage,please get your facts straight before coming here and trashing me on that.Im not going sit here and say anything negative about anyone other than who this post is about .If you feel the need to string me up, have at it .

In order for me to address anything you have said I have to go back and recount many events and conversations.I dont feel these are any of your buisness.

10:54 AM  
Anonymous Amby said...

Tor,
I know you are sorry .I feel bad that this is all out in the open because I know you are in alot of pain and this is not helping you.I do admire you for admitting what you did was wrong and apologizing privatley and publicly.

Because of mistresses actions , lies and cold way she dealt with her actions this had to be made public.Do you understand that because of what happened with you and lost and the way Mistress involved herself in that situation the whole story had to be told here.

It was important because she knew how lost felt about what you did , she chose to do it anyways.Instead of apologizing and being honest with lost and starley she lied.All either of them wanted was honesty and an apology.Evidently she is not cable of either.

I do forgive you Torrid,people make mistakes. I don't believe you will ever do somthing like this again.I think you now have a better understanding of how it effects people.

11:08 AM  
Anonymous Amby said...

truth..
I removed your post because really its just bashing.It has nothing to do with these events.

I can't with good conscience leave somthing like that up.I think torrid has enough to deal with without sarcastic fables written only to hurt her.

11:39 AM  
Anonymous Crissa said...

Any function in SL can be replicated.

Any time you rez an object that is textured, others can see those textures.

And every time you use copies from magazines, catalogs, ads, cut-outs or even a graphic you created in that image... You are doing the same thing that you're accusing - except you're expecting compensation.

Look, I painted my own textures. But I can, and would, take textures from things that I bought, to make something for myself.

Sure, it's wrong to take something someone else made and sold it without permission.

But how is it wrong to change the stitching on the pants I bought, change the hem, or fix the seams so they work on my model?

3:28 PM  
Blogger Garbage Prototype said...

Heya, I would just like to point out that Amby and I had a good chat as well, and we're good now for those "Anonymous" posters.

3:52 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Amby,

I think I speak for most average SLers when I say I am totally shocked.

Maybe I am naive, but I never expected well-known designers to resort to texture theft.

Thanks for breaking the silence and the candid manner in which you've addressed the situation.

The time for sugar-coating is over.

5:09 PM  
Blogger Camie Cooper said...

At the risk of sounding like I don't care, cause I do have some views on this topic, I won't say because it has nothing to do with me, but does this mean your new sim isn't opening today?

5:58 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Amby,

Just curious - do you get permission to use the textures that you use in your photosourcing? Those photos you source from are copyrighted. Just to be clear, you have gone to every single site you have ever used a texture from and gotten permission to use them in stuff you are making money off of, yes? Every single texture, right?

7:23 PM  
Anonymous Amby said...

anon,
Please get your facts straight .You have no idea where I get the majority of my textures.You can assume all you want.Im not saying I have never sourced from the web ,infact I do here and there but I also own a high quality scanner ,and a top of the line camera.Not to mention thousands of seamless textures.Dont be so quick to think you know me or my practices .

7:49 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Amby,

You dodged the question. It is about casting the first stone. You are commenting on how Torrid and Mistress "stole", but did you get permissions on the textures you have sourced from the web? If you didn't, you stole copyrighted work. What is worse is you profitted off of it. So instead of someone modifying something for their personal use, unless you got permission or created every single photo you have ever used, then you are a hypocrite. Additionally, whether you source from the web or scan something in, needing copyright permission doesn't change. You are an admitted photosourcer, so I am asking you if you have legal right to use every single texture you have ever used.

7:54 PM  
Anonymous Amby said...

Well, I guess anon Ill use the same cop out mistress has. I bought the items I scanned therefore I own them and can do with them as I choose. I guess the big diff here is I dont personally know the creators of some of the items I have used or scanned,i dont call them frined and I dont lie to their faces.
Now why don't you get some backbone and post your name as I have been kind enough not to screen these comments .

8:07 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Everyone knows torrid stole her textures from the sims anyways...this isnt new. I say ban the bitch because if it had been anyone else in sl this wouldnt have even been an issue they would have been banned and trashed immediately. Why treat her any differant???

8:10 PM  
Anonymous Amby said...

Anon,
This is such a lame attempt to transfer blame.No matter what arguement you want to throw on the table to try and make me look bad you cannot take away what mistress has done to her fellow designers in this community.You can not take away the fact that she has created a situation where she has lost complete respect from many of the designers here.You cannot take away that she lied to her friends and offered no apology for that lie .

Let me tell you Mis herself is not beyond crying theif and publicly humiliating people.Not beyond Iming a whole community of friends to ban certain individuals from her sim when she was stolen from .

If your going to fight for somone fight for somone worth fighting for .

8:18 PM  
Anonymous Lost said...

Hey people. Sorry I have not responded for so long, it's been are really stressful day. This message was posted after mis and tor posted in their blogs to show another side of this whole issue. Please stay on topic anonomous, the skin photosources are completely legal and paid for.

The skin mis and tor bought in the first place was NO MOD. Even if it was mod, the textures should not have been outside of SL. After all, it takes full permissions to save a texture from SL to your desktop, no? ....

GL intersept is wrong. I do not agree that using it only for personal use makes it right. I do not sell my skins full permission, and by ripping the textures, modding, and reuploading them for your own use you are changing the permissions. If everybody ended up GL intersepting for their OWN use it would really get out of hand. How would I monitor the skins I THOUGHT were no mod/no trans are now full perissions. Sorry this makes no sense to me at all. Intersepting another's creations without their consent is wrong period.

I was really hurt to see pics of tor wearing my skin with parts changing... one pic after the other, more parts of the skin noticabley different; and not being asked about it in the first place. I told Torrid, one day when she finally aproached me, that I was not okay with it and really wished I was asked about it first. Torrid had acknowledged what she did was not right, and apologized. I forgave her and do not expect her to take any texture without my permissions again. I respect you torrid for this, im sorry you are being hurt for mis's actions. Mis has now totally offended me and has hurt me greatly at this point. Her excuse for the intersepting of the textures was that she helped me out when I was a newbie. Now how does this entitle you to use me and take from me as you wish? Do you realize how much this has hurt me? I have not yet received an apology. mis, who i totally respected as an amazing designer, I no longer can trust or appreciate. Sorry Mis, this is not what "freinds" do to eachother.

Instead of trying to work things out, mis directed me to what she had posted in her blog and then logged out. I continued sending her IMs without any response. That totally offended me, and the fact that I was lied to.

the message mis is sending out to everyone on her blog is wrong; When amby attempted to comment her opinions about the post, mis would not allow it. this is why I asked amby to post what she had to say when she was in doubt. I understand this has escalated the drama but we do stand up for ourselves. Amby, thankyou so much for speaking out about this whole thing, and helping me out a great deal. I <3 you

Sorry if you are offended by my punctuation and spelling errors, or don't make sense. I'm really stressed out and upset about all of this, among other events. I hope you recover well from your surgery, Torrid.

9:52 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

umm i am brand new to SL .. one of the reasons i left my old chat sight was the drama. In the short time i have been on SL it has been a blast .. meeting new people .. going different places .. doing lots of things .. gambling .. bowling .. it seems ot be a awesome place. I am not really interested in building just yet .. or owning land .. or even clothes. I have no use for that stuff.

Needless to say when i ran across these blogs i was shocked ..*L* The fun place i thought this was is full of drama and people hurting each other. I ask myself .. is it worth it? *laughing* .. obviously to some of you it is. But thru the eyes of a newbie it is crazy. SL could be such a fun place .. and to be honest .. i hope i never get to know it well enough for that sort of drama.

Now about skins and stuff .. yesterday or maybe the day before i was approached and next thing i new they gave me a skin .. i am happy with my own skin and wasn't even sure what to do with it. Well she seemed offended when i didn't take it .. and told me it was worth a lot of money. Naturally i told her ok and i took it. I didn't put it on because i am fine with the way i look...*L*

Now this being said and reading all the drama going on over this kind of stuff .. well i must say now i wonder if i have something i would get in trouble for. Isn't that sad .. brand new and now i have to worry about this sort of stuff.

Me ...i am going to enjoy my second life .. and hope that if drama like this ever finds me .. i will move on or just hang out in my real life .. i am only here for fun .. you can keep the drama

11:30 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

i think its really easy to say drama la la la not listening drama la la la. but the reason this kind of shit is important is that torrid, nephilaine, and mistress held themselves to a higher standard than everyone else. they stole textures using the intercept program and in torrid's case stole textures for her clothing line from the various sims texture banks. these are people who founded their dislike and superiority over others on their fashion careers. to find out that one of them is a fraud and all three are guilty of using intercept programs in a vigilante i do what i want to kind of way? that is big shit. its big shit because they should be banned like the rest of the thieves who used the same programs. too bad thetruthrefic removed her website. i sent everyone there that shopped at torridwear. and amby i don't know why you even apologized to torrid. she made her bed and now she must lie in it. she stole from respected creators. she stole from a popular game. she insisted she was the queen of original designs and looked down her nose at everyone who didn't fit her bill. i hope she takes a good look at the way she is being perceived. its not unbalanced or unfair. apologies fix things but not always. and in her case, how does she begin to apologize to the thousands of customers who bought her shit in the good faith she had created it like she said she did? instead of remaining silent i wish she would comment on that and i wish nephilaine would speak up about her involvement. mistress might be a blubbering idiot but at least she reacted.

12:09 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Equating modifying something for your own PERSONAL use and stealing is a HUGE, ridiculous leap. My friends wouldn't have any problem if I manipulated something they made for my own use, as long as I wasn't reselling it. I think the only thing Torrid and Mis are guilty of is thinking they had real friends in Lost and Amby.

Enjoy the drama.

4:43 PM  
Anonymous amby said...

Lol! Please let me ask you what makes somone a friend .In all honesty I know 0 about Mis , Ive maybe talked to her 6 times in my life .I have no clue why i was invited to MC at all ever.Its not like they are highly friendly people.

Torrid no offense,i knew her briefly,spoke to her maybe once a month . Mistress is the one who used the "friends" thing as an exscuse ..

I guess they think anyone who they ever spoke to or ever asked to come to MC owes them .Sorry I dont recall selling my soul when I put up shop 2 years ago in Midnight city when it was under her ownership. BTW miss..you should think twice about that cheese.

5:18 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

5:22 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

That was probably a dumb thing to post, I don't want to give the unethical, shady people any more ideas. Please delete that, ambyance or lost!

5:24 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"BTW miss..you should think twice about that cheese."

Wow, what's that supposed to mean? Keep blogging. I don't know you personally but the more you write the more I realize how fortunate I am not to. Nothing like blogs to really make someone's true colors available for everyone to see. Enjoy your new rep!

5:27 PM  
Anonymous amby said...

Anon,
If im going to get a bad rep with people who think stealing is okay ,People that come here and judge our character with completley no foundation then im damn well going to give you some good reading and earn that rep .Im sick of this topic, Im sick of this debate and im sick of people like you who know nothing about the situation.

5:37 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

No, you explained the situation pretty well. Calling what they did "stealing" is really pretty silly. I could understand your anger if they were reselling your stuff but they're not. Whatever. I'm just glad I read your blog before I went out and bought anything of yours.

5:44 PM  
Anonymous amby said...

Im glad you did too:).Anyone that thinks over riding my permissions is okay id rather they not shop with us .The permissions are set for a reason.They are not just some random thing linden labs thought up to make the interface look good on the edit menu.

5:49 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Filled under the "much ado about nothing" folder on the intarweb.

6:25 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

1. Copying someone else's work without permission is called copyright infrigement, not theft. It would only be theft if you deprived the prior owner of posession of the content. Copyright infringement is settled in civil court. Theft is handled in criminal court.

2. United States Copyright law allows for Fair Use of content that you have legally purchased. This means you are allowed to modify, archive, and even destroy it, so long as you do not make copies for other people without permission.

3. You do not need permission from the content owner/creator in order to exercise your Fair Use rights.

4. If you have mp3s of copyrighted music that you copied without permission (e.g., ripped from a CD), and you do not believe in Fair Use rights in SL, then you are a hypocrite.

8:07 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If you can't tell the difference between making an identical copy of a cd for personal use, and bypassing the creators intentions and second life's permissions to make additional altered copies without paying for them, then you are an idiot.

If it was a matter of making a copy (like you would your cd) you can accomplish that in SL. Right click - Copy. Right click - Paste.

8:40 PM  
Blogger Nephilaine Protagonist said...

To answer why I haven't spoken up about this yet, I haven't said anything because I am still discussing the situation with Lost and Ambyance. I did indeed make a mistake here, and that mistake was not thinking some actions through. Ambyance and Lost are aware exactly what those actions were, and that is being worked out between the three of us.

As for the perception that I have built my career on other's failures and that I am somehow "above the law" here, no. Being the authority on what i think and feel, i can tell you with certainty that i have never at any point considered another designer beneath me. certainly not lost and ambyance, as i have very very high personal and private respect for them, and think they do wonderful work. they have been very badly burned by texture theft already, and i understand why they take this so seriously.
i wish i had connected the dots on that earlier, but that is noone's fault but my own, and as i said before, i have (and am still) discussing that with them.
if it's neccesary to do so, i will comment more on this later.

10:05 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Except that the RIAA doesn't want you to make copies. Rest assured if there were a RL "no copy" flag, they would be using it (and they have tried to make one). And yet, you copy the CD anyway, against their wishes.

11:12 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What's the difference between ripping a few CDs I bought to make a remix CD of my favorite songs, and ripping some clothing that I bought so I can make a "remix" outfit for my avatar?

For example, what if I want a collar from one shirt put on another, or a belt from one pair of pants put on a beltless pair of pants that are my favorite?

What if I want to put my name on the back of a jacket, or a drawing I did? What if I want to make my pants look torn up or add tan lines to my skin?

If I'm not selling it or giving away copies, then what's the big deal?

11:20 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

this is an issue yes, but I don't think that it is a public issue. The designers should have discusses this amoungst themselves and kept it private.

I understand both sides of the story, and agree that texture ripping for personal use is a grey area.

What I take issue with however is Ambyance's need to drag this whole thing out into the public arena. Naming names, especially Torrid who shows genuine remorse over her actions is a childish thing to do. Keep a matter like this private.

11:58 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"What I take issue with however is Ambyance's need to drag this whole thing out into the public arena."

Two words: drama mama.

I can think of at least one other designer who pulled the same sort of thing recently on her own blog. Unfortunately there seems to be a rash of "DON'T YOU KNOW WHO I AM IN SL" moments happening all over the blogsphere.

On the one hand, it's disapointing to read, on the other hand, it's enlightening. Who wants to support someone's business when you realize they're dinks?

12:09 AM  
Anonymous amby said...

I really dont think Neph needs to defend herself here .In the beginning of this thread i stated that Neph was not being brought here for a reason.So please be respectful of that .

12:15 AM  
Anonymous amby said...

Anon ,
Mistress went public with this .It amazes me you can post the things you do when you have not taken the time to read everything there is on
the whole situation.
If lost and I thought we were high and mighty or whatever you said , do you think we would even bother with leaving posts like yours up ?

12:20 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"On the one hand, it's disapointing to read, on the other hand, it's enlightening. Who wants to support someone's business when you realize they're dinks?"

very true. I came to this blog to read about naughty designs and the island, having seen the previous post with the previews. I was very very keen to check it all out and buy some things. When I came back today to see if there were anymore updates I found this post and lost interest in visiting the new sim or buying the products due to the petty childish behaviour. I will also think twice about buying from ANY of the people mentioned in this blog post, from both sides of the argument. I guess naming names really backfired huh? Dinks. I like that :)

12:24 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mistress Midnight was the first to go public with this. You want a drama mama? Talk to her. The only reason that the three creators who were offended even posted was because she blogged her convoluted side of the situation first. Put the blame where it lies squarely for the publication: Mistress' hands.

12:27 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ok then, that's fine, if mistress started it first... pfft. There was no need to retaliate and there was no need to drag torrid's name (or some of the others) into the mix, especially since the issue with her had been resolved. She had nothing to do with the new 'drama' so why bring it up?

12:33 AM  
Anonymous amby said...

Anon,
Im quite sorry you feel the way you do . I must say again that you have no right to judge us if you are not aware of all of the facts .

This is not somthing that we enjoy as much as you would like to think we do.Its not haha this is fun lets trash somone today.

As I said before , we will stand up for ourselves and other honest designers who have the same standards as we do concerning the use of any 3rd party program used to steal somone elses hard work.

We have high stakes in this game.We don't do this strictly for entertainment.

If you do not agree with the methods we use to try and protect ourselves then I dont blame you for not visiting our sim or buying our things.

12:46 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

1:44 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Ok then, that's fine, if mistress started it first... pfft. There was no need to retaliate and there was no need to drag torrid's name (or some of the others) into the mix, especially since the issue with her had been resolved. She had nothing to do with the new 'drama' so why bring it up?"

It got brought up because Torrid showed Mistress how to do it. It got brought up because Torrid has also taken questionable copywritten content from other digital media. And the fact of the matter is she would shit kittens if someone had done that to her. If they had taken her textures and profited off of them in some other venue. Blind support of someone just because you think you know a situation is complete bullshit. The three designers were supposed to do what after Mistress very public blog? Sit back and not respond? Even though by the time they had responded she had TEXTURE WARS COME READ mismidnight.blogspot.com in her profile? Everyone saw that. And she was informing people privately of the names of the creators involved. So they should have let her slander them behind their backs? They should have let her have her side of the story? Bullshit again. The three people have their right to their opinions and they have a right to express themselves in whatever way they wish regarding their businesses. What they did was the digital equivalent of a press release. Was it completely professional? No. But no part of this situation is. The predictable supporters of the wrongdoers came out. But the true anger lies in the consumer market. Most don't care. Just like real life. But there are a bulk of customers who do feel cheated when content creators feel they are above common courtesy or respect. Or when other content creators openly source from another digital artist and claim the work as their own. Many of us firmly believe as well that the mafioso bully reputation Torrid attained and that her acquaintances obtained too, has led to a situation where it's very easy to be amused by someone's public humiliation. Call it what you will. It might even be the sad, ignored side of humanity. Torrid did a lot of good in the community, but so have many many others who did it for the sole reason of doing good. No publicity. No business to run. And they would have been blacklisted from the game had they even tried to do some of what these girls have done. Torrid is human. So is everyone else involved in the situation. I say we all move the fuck on. If there is one thing I am convinced of more than anything now, it's that the Midnight City Crew is most definitely a digital mafia. You blindly defend one another without observing the facts that are there in all of the accounts. Instead you take one side and make a cause out of it. Your side. I hope that someone intercepts all of Torrid's items and sells them in There or IMVU. It would certainly be just desserts.

1:51 AM  
Anonymous MM said...

Yes, I blogged it, but I named no one, that was your game. and Amby like i said repost under your own name and ill paste it up :) - Nice burn on the cheese thing, Maturity++

3:19 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Blowing off some of the comments you see here because you're under the impression they're coming from the "mafia" you mention would be a stupid assumption. I based my comments solely on what I read here.

5:05 AM  
Anonymous Amby said...

Yes ,Mistress,you said to post under my own name not company.I dont know why posting under Naughty Designs was a problem .Then later I posted ,with Amby, that still was'nt good enough.What is that you wanted me to post with?My real name?

Would it make you feel better Mistress if I just would have posted all of the original conversations from the Torrid one months ago to our latest?Would it be better that people could see how many times you said torrid made a mistake and had used bad judgement.How many times you said you do not condone what she did .

Allow people to see just how hard you slapped lost in the face?Would that be better?

7:11 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Greed, price, wrath, and envy -- this thread nearly has it all. Don't you just love how virtualizing human relationships brings out the true self much more quickly?

10:57 AM  
Anonymous Wuvme Karuna said...

I don't agree with texture stealing/theft, if you made it, its to stay in a "template" form, and if the buyer took the texture out of the template form and not asked for permission is wrong.

This whole argument sounds like a high school drama class.

If you care for torrid, please let the situation ride it out, she just got out of surgery, let her rest, let her come back again, This should have been a private discussion and should have never got out to everyone, whoever took this out, must have wanted attention.

As for ND, keep up the good work, and i believe there is even a sign in your store that has your store policy.

- wuv

11:23 AM  
Anonymous Lost said...

Ugh, seriously, if I wanted my skins modified outside of SL I'd sell them in full rights. They were clearly marked no mod to begin with. We do have a store policy stating the buyers cannot edit the textures outside of SL; thankyou for bringing that up Wuv.
"Naughty Designs retains all copyrights to the enclosed materials. The buyer is not purchasing the contents, only the right to use the contents. The buyer may not redistribute these textures in whole or in part. The buyer may not store it any place on a network or on the internet where it may be referenced by a third party. The buyer may not use third party software to extract the original texture files. The buyer may not modify the texture in any way. In buying our products you agree to the terms stated above. Naughty Designs will enforce this user agreement to the fullest possible extent."

Months ago when Torrid had intersepted the textures Mistress involved herself in the situation even though she was not part of it. Why would Mis lie if she thought what she did was not wrong to begin with? And really I tried to talk things through privately; instead I was linked to here blog and shoved off. Sorry it turned out to be so brutal, that was not the insention. I don't really care if you disagree with what was posted on our blog, I don't expect everyone to agree with it. I do have feelings as well as Torrid and Mis, I too was really hurt by all of this.

This was not a damn stunt before the opening of our island. That statement is just ridiculous. The opening was that much more stressful, chaotic, and I was not able to be there 100% for my customers. I did not know the situation would blow up this huge. Please mis, stop trying to make us look like the bad guys here. We reacted to Mis's lies, and avoidance of the situation. I do not believe that posting the whole story on our blog to inform people was the wrong way to react.

Peter's review was not fair as I was immensely busy preparing for the opening of the island. I did not have time to expand my thoughts on the situation through IM. The issue here is not the differences between the bought skins and the combined skins. The point is she took the actual textures into her hands without the consent of the creator, when these textures did not have the rights to begin with.

I'm sad to hear the verbal abuse Torrid underwent. I can understand why she is taking a break, and I respect her decision. I do not believe however that we are are the ones to blame.

12:56 PM  
Anonymous Lost said...

...and btw mis, you are missing an origional skin that you used for the combined skins, and covered these parts; and also failed to bring up other points -- like using the actual textures you intersepted on your ads. I dunno but, that itself seems to me you are "profiting off of someone else's work" :\

Also, the title "texture wars" was actually shocking I must add... as we did not discuss the issue long enough for it to be a war. I think unfortunately you brought all this onto yourself and Torrid.

1:23 PM  
Anonymous amby said...

Im very sorry if this offends anyone,but due to aimees article and its implications of lost and I making that awful death statement I feel it is only fair to post this .We would never ever wish that on anyone .Friend or foe.

We did not want to go here but to defend ourselves I feel this is neccessary.
*Im posting this without asking lost,if he feels it needs to be removed he will do so.
[4:16] Aimee Weber: Amby, I wanted you to know that I am really upset about your frequent attacks on Midnight City on your blog. I understand you have issues with Torrid and Mistress.
[4:16] Aimee Weber: But you should understand that they do not own Midnight City and they are barely active in it.
[4:16] Aimee Weber: So all of those attacks essentailly focuse on ME. I do not think I have done anything to deserve all those things you said. Midnight City has a lot of very good folks including The exploratorium and Radio Radio. Your attacks on midnight city also attack
[4:16] Aimee Weber: them.
[4:16] Aimee Weber: ANd even worse, with Mistress and Torrid barely involved here, it doesn't hurt them at all. Only me!
[4:16] Aimee Weber: If you want to extend your feud to me, by all means let your statements stand. But if you have any sense of fairness, and you don't want to start a war with ME, plese update your blog so your attacks hit their intended target
[4:16] Aimee Weber: rather than hitting me and my sim
[4:31] Ambyance2 Anubis: Noone ever attacked MC . You have never done anything to us aimee, and it was not my intention to hurt MC.I was only explaining the facts as they happened .If you noticed I said we felt bad about leaving MC .Aimee had done us no wrong .
[4:31] Second Life: User not online - message will be stored and delivered later.
[4:34] Ambyance2 Anubis: If you want to be upset with somone you should be upset with Mistress. She is the one who decided to post on this ,up until yesterday noone made anything public . She made that first move .If your getting negative anything its probably do to your support
[4:34] Second Life: User not online - message will be stored and delivered later.
[4:36] Ambyance2 Anubis: of using the interceptor . Most designers who work here as their "real" will be upset by the support you gave mistress on that.
[4:36] Second Life: User not online - message will be stored and delivered later.
[4:39] Ambyance2 Anubis: If you all think its okay ,how can we trust any of you in our stores ,shops ,or with our merchandise ?Please look at the other side of this Aimee .Mistress knew prior to this how we felt about it because she imserted herself in the conversation between
[4:39] Second Life: User not online - message will be stored and delivered later.
[4:40] Ambyance2 Anubis: Lost and Torrid . Even after all of that, her knowing how lost felt she still went ahead and did it .
[4:40] Second Life: User not online - message will be stored and delivered later.

3:28 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

After all of this, the only person whom named names originally was Ambyance, not Mis's blog entry , the only person stirring the pot of drama for apparently either the sake of stirring it or in a failed attempt at publicity was Ambyance. The excuse of needing to bring Torrid in as a example/background is yet more crap, a example of what? A eight month old dead issue that was already resolved between the parties concerned? That had nothing to do with the Mis issue anyway? Had less than nothing to do with Ambyance at all? Or maybe a half assed attempt to stir shit. Way to go, blew up nicely in your face.

All this pointing of fingers at Mis's blog entry as starting this, when no names were named at all in said entry, is just one more feeble excuse to attempt to justify a less than subtle backhanded attempt to crucify Torrid. For no reason at all, certainly not for any supposed nonexistent historical context a eight month resolved issue had.

So I feel perfectly comfortable in deleting all my inventory purchased from any of the Naughty Designs members and happily never sending another linden in their direction again.

8:03 AM  
Anonymous Lost said...

Do as you wish, that's your right. No, I do not agree we are the ones the fingers should be pointed at. If you read all the info provided accurately, we responded to Mis. Yes we explained the background info, since mis chose not to work this out privately. It then turned into a public issue, one that I do believe people should have the right to have access to all the facts. But hmm, who's behind all these interviews? Who's sending emails to publishers? Not us.

The point is, a product is sold with set permissions, the buyer chose to abuse these rights, overriding these permissions. I do have a problem with that; I myself would never disrespect another creator's wishes to how they'd like their products to be sold. If you believe differently, I'd prefer you not buy our products, as I would not feel perfectly comfortable with it.

Take care :)

9:59 AM  
Anonymous Aces said...

Love you lost and amby, I hope all this bullshit will stop soon

10:02 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Lost writes-"Do as you wish, that's your right. No, I do not agree we are the ones the fingers should be pointed at. If you read all the info provided accurately, we responded to Mis."

Read perfectly accurately, she named no one, you folk named her and Torrid for some reason.

Lost writes-"Yes we explained the background info, since mis chose not to work this out privately."

Wasn't it? Whom outside of herself and you would've guessed about the nature and parties involved if you folk hadn't decided to out names and out Torrid over something already privately resolved? How is Torrid relevant to Mis fair issue again? How is Torrid relevant to Mis's blog entry that describes a completely separate even and that named no names related or context?


Lost writes-"It then turned into a public issue, one that I do believe people should have the right to have access to all the facts."

How did it become a public issue again? Oh thats right Ambyance did. In this very post that we're both responding to that was so full of wild accusations she had to go back and edit it.


Lost writes-"The point is, a product is sold with set permissions, the buyer chose to abuse these rights, overriding these permissions."

Right, the products are sold with in the confines of US law, those are the right all things in SL operates under, and are the reality, not the fantasy, and those rights include fair use. It's the law. You'll eventually cope (or not) I'm sure, but that isn't the real point is it?

The real point is using a blog entry that named no names and wasn't related to Torrid's actions which were already resolved as an excuse to smear the competition, to smear Torrid. Bravo, well played.

10:13 AM  
Anonymous Lost said...

Torrid's situation IS a part of this, as Mistress did involve herself with it. We're including the background info, and it happens to include Torrid. We did not include names that we did not feel should have been called out. We DID include Torrid's apology and our belief that she will not intersept textures again.

The product sold is no mod/no trans; whatever law that may override this it should have been respected. We do have store policies, and I cope well with them, thanks.

11:24 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Lost writes, "Torrid's situation IS a part of this, as Mistress did involve herself with it."

How? If it was privately resolved eight months previous, how is that part of Mis's current fair use issue?

The only reason Torrid's name came up is because Ambyance brought it up. In fact the only reason your names have become public and this issue became public is because Ambyance choose to make it public.

In this very posting we are replying to, one so far off mark and full of accusations (that bear zero relevance) to the situation of Mis's fair use of purchased skins, Ambyance had to go back and edit out some of her own hyperbole. Not enough to spare Torrid any grief on a already resolved issue though.

Lost writes, "We're including the background info, and it happens to include Torrid."

And how does an instance of an event that occurred eight months past and was resolved in privately and had zero bearing on the current event of Mis's fair use issue relevant? How is that back ground?

Lost writes, "We did not include names that we did not feel should have been called out."

Oh so very laudable, so it was a group decision then? To "get back" at Torrid, by calling her a texture thief? She deserved to be called out why? After eight months and a resolution? Being unrelated to Mis's fair use issue, why did was Torrid's name included?

My decision to no longer frequent any of your establishments stands all the more firmly.

Lost writes, "We DID include Torrid's apology and our belief that she will not intersept textures again."

But only after you called her a thief and sparked a shit storm about a topic of which she wasn't involved with (Mis's actions), about a event that she'd already resolved eight month prior? My how very noble and generous of you.

Lost writes, "The product sold is no mod/no trans; whatever law that may override this it should have been respected."

So disregard a law to suit your own notion of what's moral based on personal desires. Interesting. Sounds familiar. Thanks though I think I'll stick to the US legal code on this one rather than the 'whatever lost feels is right' ND code of non-law.

A person buy a item they've every legal right under fair use to do what Mis did. Bottom line.

Additionally I really doubt it was about those issues anyway, you and yours were not named in Mis's blog. You and yours choose to make this public and you and yours decided to drag up past resolved events to smear other desginers, either for publicity or spite.

As to store-company policies, good thing store policies don't circumvent law in rl huh? Else I'd still be forced to sit at the back of the bus.

12:02 PM  
Anonymous lost said...

8 months ? Where did this number come from? The issue certainly didn't happen that long ago. In fact, I don't think I even had my skins for sale that long ago. Just shows you really don't have a clue about what's going on... seems you are caught up in the twisted side of the story; so I really have nothing to prove to you as I exlpained my thoughts on this already.

1:01 PM  
Anonymous Amby said...

Of course I named them .We tried to work this out privatley. Mis chose to blog about this.Im about 5 steps from posting all the logs I have.I hope to god she saved hers.

Let me ask you what purpose would have been served if the names were not posted? This did not happen 8 months ago , this happened 2 months ago with torrid .It was all very fresh in everyones minds.They did not have time to forget how lost felt about this.

Infact this all happened the first time, the week before relay for life .If Lost was WRONG in his request and they felt it was unfair why didn't mis let him know then she had the hair base.She let Torrid take all of the negative thoughts and feelings never mentioning she had also done the same thing.

She had the perfect opportunity at that point to ask lost for permission , to tell him what she had done .

Also,if we are such awful unfair people why did Aimee invite us to Participatte in Relay for Life after all of this.I personally did nothing for RFL because I went on vacation , but lost busted his ass .

1:08 PM  
Anonymous amby said...

Mis,
If your reading this you better think long and hard about the events leading up to this disaster.You need to look in the mirror, see if you can look in your own eyes with no guilt.

Your lies have multiplied, you have helped no-one.The only thing you have achieved is showing that you can use your friends to try and hurt people who really are innocent and have done nothing but stand up for themselves.I have a feeling that if most of the people who are posting in your defense knew the whole truth none of this would be happening.

I would never use my friends in the way wich you have.Its disgusting.

1:20 PM  
Anonymous amby said...

If there is any honest writer out there who is intrested in telling the true story the whole story , intrested in meeting with us all in the same place to get all of the facts please post here .Thats if Mis is willing.I know lost and I have no reservations about meeting with her and discussing this issue.

1:26 PM  
Anonymous silence the violence, increase the peace said...

this is SO crazy guys

you are ALL amazing designers and your sales show that. we all need to make a mends, i remeber a time in SL when things were so much simpler, now they have all gone to hell. texture theif, 1k lindens for 2.50

we all need to come together and show our love. you guys are the ones who started the designing and SL and you are all here for a reason. you are the best. stop giving each other trash. you did wrong so shake hands and lets get over it. know one should have to leave SL. this drama is so crazy!!

its seems to me there are diffrent sides to each story and im not going to take a side or agree with anyone, but come-on.

we all make mistakes and it seems everyone has learned.

<3 your SL hippie

8:54 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

From the TOS.
YOU basically give unconditional Liscense to every user Booyah! Ive delt in copyright law. As long as they rip in game and use in game its still under that liscense!



3.2 You retain copyright and other intellectual property rights with respect to Content you create in Second Life, to the extent that you have such rights under applicable law. However, you must make certain representations and warranties, and provide certain license rights, forbearances and indemnification, to Linden Lab and to other users of Second Life.

Users of the Service can create Content on Linden Lab's servers in various forms. Linden Lab acknowledges and agrees that, subject to the terms and conditions of this Agreement, you will retain any and all applicable copyright and other intellectual property rights with respect to any Content you create using the Service, to the extent you have such rights under applicable law.

Notwithstanding the foregoing, you understand and agree that by submitting your Content to any area of the service, you automatically grant (and you represent and warrant that you have the right to grant) to Linden Lab: (a) a royalty-free, worldwide, fully paid-up, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive right and license to (i) use, reproduce and distribute your Content within the Service as permitted by you through your interactions on the Service, and (ii) use and reproduce (and to authorize third parties to use and reproduce) any of your Content in any or all media for marketing and/or promotional purposes in connection with the Service; (b) the perpetual and irrevocable right to delete any or all of your Content from Linden Lab's servers and from the Service, whether intentionally or unintentionally, and for any reason or no reason, without any liability of any kind to you or any other party; and (c) a royalty- free, fully paid-up, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive right and license to copy, analyze and use any of your Content as Linden Lab may deem necessary or desirable for purposes of debugging, testing and/or providing support services in connection with the Service. Further, you agree to grant to Linden Lab a royalty-free, worldwide, fully paid-up, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive, sublicensable right and license to exercise the copyright, publicity, and database rights you have in your account information, including any data or other information generated by your account activity, in any media now known or not currently known, in accordance with our privacy policy as set forth below, including the incorporation by reference of terms posted at http://secondlife.com/corporate/privacy.php.

You also understand and agree that by submitting your Content to any area of the Service, you automatically grant (or you warrant that the owner of such Content has expressly granted) to Linden Lab and to all other users of the Service a non-exclusive, worldwide, fully paid-up, transferable, irrevocable, royalty-free and perpetual License, under any and all patent rights you may have or obtain with respect to your Content, to use your Content for all purposes within the Service. You further agree that you will not make any claims against Linden Lab or against other users of the Service based on any allegations that any activities by either of the foregoing within the Service infringe your (or anyone else's) patent rights.

You further understand and agree that: (i) you are solely responsible for understanding all copyright, patent, trademark, trade secret and other intellectual property or other laws that may apply to your Content hereunder; (ii) you are solely responsible for, and Linden Lab will have no liability in connection with, the legal consequences of any actions or failures to act on your part while using the Service, including without limitation any legal consequences relating to your intellectual property rights; and (iii) Linden Lab's acknowledgement hereunder of your intellectual property rights in your Content does not constitute a legal opinion or legal advice, but is intended solely as an expression of Linden Lab's intention not to require users of the Service to forego certain intellectual property rights with respect to Content they create using the Service, subject to the terms of this Agreement

4:08 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ohh heres the part if you dont wanna Read


you automatically grant (or you warrant that the owner of such Content has expressly granted) to Linden Lab and to all other users of the Service a non-exclusive, worldwide, fully paid-up, transferable, irrevocable, royalty-free and perpetual License, under any and all patent rights you may have or obtain with respect to your Content, to use your Content for all purposes within the Service.

4:14 PM  

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